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Where to buy parrots in Finland?
« : 10.03.10 - klo:00:57:00 »
Hello my name is Niclas and im a 27 year old man that seeking to find some god breeder for parrots. Im seeking for a friend to my nymf with the name Emil. And now we are seeking a Indian Ringneck (Psittacula krameri) for him. Do anyone know about some place to buy this kind of parrot in Finland? Why im speaking English and live in Finland is because i speak swedish most of the time.   ::)

We live close to Vasa.

Greetings: Niclas

Re: Where to buy parrots in Finland?
« Vastaus #1 : 10.03.10 - klo:10:00:37 »
Hello and welcome to the forum :)
If I understood correctly, you're seeking second bird, an Indian ringneck for your cockatiel?

I myself wouldn't take a strong (beaked) parrot like ringneck to put as friend for a relevantly small parrot like cockatiel if they first of all don't have separate cages (both sized as the finnish law require) and of course, if the individuals aren't used to eachother's species. I think it's too risky, of course if you test a ringneck in your house before purchasing it and both of the birds accept eachother, I see no problem at all as far as putting the two to live in the same room, still I would never place them in the same cage, if the "cage" isn't like an aviary. :)

The reason why Indian ringneck can be a risk for a cockatiel is because even the two was the best of friends, if and when the one "punch" comes from the ringneck, even if the reason would be as stubid as guarding the specific item, a toy, a water-source, the best perch/stand, it can injure the cockatiel very badly, and even if it doesn't right away kill it, the bleeding / possibly the caused fracture or even a trauma to the head and caused bleeding in the brain will (as a trauma to the head in a case where the amazon-sized bird fell from the perch and about a week later died).
Birds' bones are hollow, so the fracture doesnt need alot of power to be done, and ringneck can as easily do it to cockatiel as the cockatiel does it for budgie (which by the way isn't that rare at all to hear, and fracture made by other species is propably the most common way to get your petbird hurt!). :-\

My opinion is, if you desperatly want an Indian ringneck, do not take for granted that the cockatiel or the Ringneck will like eachother - or even want eachother in the same room. Exspecially if eather of them are hand-fed, because then it's just plain war who gets to be with you! ::) And take my word when I tell you, ringneck will not accept the cockatiel anywhere near you if it's handfed. Ringnecks are really apassionate when it comes to the person it loves.

So think about it, make careful plans, make the needed preparations if you still want an Indian ringneck, and you'll be alright ;) :D

Good luck with the search, and again, welcome to the forum :)
I'd fly above the trees, over the seas in all degrees.. To anywhere I please.

Re: Where to buy parrots in Finland?
« Vastaus #2 : 10.03.10 - klo:11:19:52 »
Tanks for the answer. Like you said there will not be in the same cage. I have learn alot about this allready and i know when you have both out you need to look after them and se how they get along. And that's a common problem for everyone even people. Even we don't get along all our life every second. And what i can say about my nymf is that he are not hand feeded. And he love his cage. But just for fun i take him out every day to get social. And he likes it to. :)

But i think that is something you have to work with to get them to know eachother. And so they know right and wrong. Animal kingdome are amazing and they learn quickly how's the boss. :) Better than we people :)

But if you know anybody that have some ringnecks. I will want to get breeders with god care for he/she's parrots. :)

Re: Where to buy parrots in Finland?
« Vastaus #3 : 10.03.10 - klo:15:42:46 »
Im really glad you have studied this topic and thought about it (more than I first thought you were - sorry about that ;)). One reason why I'm really guick to comment on these kind of things is because Im working in a petshop, and as far as this topic goes, unfortunately I have heard too often guestions like "Can I put a macaw in the same cage with a budgie?". And even your guestions wasn't this bad, I have used to people who just doesn't know, and doesn't want to study either. But im glad you are :)

And so they know right and wrong. Animal kingdome are amazing and they learn quickly how's the boss. :) Better than we people :)

Actually parrots, as small as budgie or as large as a macaw, does not have any willingness to understand the word or the meaning of "boss". That is mainly because of the lack of pack hierarchy among birds in the wild. :) So you see, they don't have any natural instinct as far as "listen and do what the boss tells you", like in wolfpacks and among our canine friends (dogs). And doing so will just cause problems, which happen when bird does not start to see you as a boss like you would want (because it isn't supposed to do it in the wild neither is it supposed to do it in our homes), and the bird will only start seeing people as a source of bad things, penalties and forcing it to do things it doesnt want, like stepping up to your hand. :-\ Sooner or later the bird will grow and will start avoiding bad things happening to it, example it will fly away or bite you very hard when you try to make it step on your hand again, or even attack. These problems are very common with larger parrots, smaller ones like cockatiels will usually eventually just use escaping as a way to avoid things.
Caging is another common problem with the people who will force the bird into it's cage; when you're taking the bird to the cage, it will fly alway. Soon it doesn't even want to come on your hand even it was ok with it 10 minutes ago. Now it knows where it's about to end. It has started to see you as a threat, and it will hate the cage even more the next time. Trust me on this, I have gone through it. And I have damaged my other bird's trust so badly, still after years of building the trust it does not trust me, and doesn't even want to step on my hand anymore. And propably it never will. I do not want you to have the same faith.

Many people think that just because parrots are so smart, they are like dogs. That is completely rubbish. Just because an animal is smart and guick to learn things, does not mean it is a dog or that evolution has orginally developed it from the wolves. Bird is so far from dogs, you wouldnt even imagine! ::)
Your first thought must be: "Come on, that is just wrong". But people who haven't "studied" as much about the parrot behavior and problem solving, does not know it and that can't be even expected from them, but parrots are nothing like dogs and should never be treated like one.

My trusty opinion, and very strict one too is that if you want to offer your pet the best life you can possible give, you must understand the pet's natural behavior and use that in the process of training. And petbirds' natural behavior does not include understanding the hierarchy system where one individual is the alpha (boss). But they will understand when human is the source of bad things, and eventually the bird will learn ways to avoid it. Unfortunately, here in forum as we speak, are people who has first-hand experience about higly aggressive parrots, which is caused only because these people have forced their petbirds to their limits, and the bird has realized the only way it will stop the bad things is to attack the source of it. In the dog world this would've never happend but once again; parrots are not dogs.

So if the forcing is not the way to do it, what is; well, positive reinforcement, where you are on your bird's side, respecting it's natural behavior-system, and make it do things you want. I only use positive reinforcement here with my birds, because I dont want to work against them - I want to work with them.
I had a problem with my newest add to the flock, 2 year-old cockatiel Veeti. He had few problems; first of all he had been forced to the harness, go in the cage, punished when he did something wrong and he was always all over me. This bird was a wreck! He yelled alot, the minute I took harness from the closet he started flying around in panic, and he wouldn't go inside his cage. The answer was not continuing the way he had been handeled in the previous home, but to start working with him. He had been here a year now, and he will go in the cage HIMSELF every night when I want him to, we are still training with the harness but he lets me touch him with the harness, he will touch it himself, take the treat putting his head through the "collar", and he will not fly to me if I don't tell him to. :)

All this is because he trusts me completely, and he knows I am never the source of bad things. So he only sees me as a huge treat-machine that will always do nice things, give him treats, strokes, or talk to him in a very gentle voice. He is always free to tell me when he doesn't like the situation but I am willing to train him with these things. I will treat him when he does right things, so that when he measures the ways he gets more good for himself, he will do things that he will get treats, prays or my attention. And these things do not include yelling my ears off ;D

You can read more about positive reinforcement in Barbara Heidenreich's site Good Bird Inc. Barbara is the world-famous trainer who's speciality is parrots. Kaijuli also has some articles but sadly they're mostly in finnish.

Advice you can (clearly ::)) always get when you want here in the forums, and excuse my long message (took me forever to type, I will keep these as short as I can next time)! :P
I'd fly above the trees, over the seas in all degrees.. To anywhere I please.

Re: Where to buy parrots in Finland?
« Vastaus #4 : 13.03.10 - klo:03:08:39 »
Hello and thanks for a long an intressting message. :) My bird Emil did have the same problems before. No one could even try to touch him and he bit alot. But after i had have in some month now he is a new bird. He love his cage and he have always done that. But now he can come out and have fun and he will always come and sitt on my shoulder and have diffrent sounds.. So i know dogs and birds are not the same but maby it's why i have so big intresst for the birds when there diffrent and they really have a own will :D

But i know that that the bird is a really nice friend when you do as you should and have time for your bird.. Talk to it and all. And you have a nice friend that make you happy every day you come home. :)

And im always studie what i will get. And i know one thing when you get a pet then you need to take care of it. But im sad to know how many animals that don't have some one that's really taking care of them.. Why buy a pet when they don't take care of it.  :'(

But my birds have everything for time with them from the cage to. On the summer there mutch outside and with us on our summer house and everyone in my family do speak with Emil when there are on a visit. :) Like it's my room mate :) And he is so glad for that :) 

So i think a ringneck will get a nice home. :)

Re: Where to buy parrots in Finland?
« Vastaus #5 : 13.03.10 - klo:09:51:59 »
Im sure with good preparations the parrot will get a loving home there :)
My opinion is that when getting a parrot, you don't have to have alot of information besides the basics; like you know what parrot eats, and whats the basic personality of that species etc., but you need to have a trustworthy source of help whenever you need it, like Kaijuli, and you need to be willing to accept the new information or people who try to help - else it's just waste of time for the person who try to help, the owner AND the bird. It just doesn't help anyone to think: "I don't want to listen for these people who try to help!" :-\

Well goodluck your "mission" to find a ringneck, and unfortunately I do not know any breeders. Breeder status for ringnecks is really poor in Finland but sometimes you might find a bit older ones for sale in Kaijuli. Example this:

Isokauluskaija / Psittacula eupatria nipalensis / Alexandrine Parakeet. Altho this ones says even she is kissable and strokeable, and she loves people, she is territorial and (typically) she does not like other birds.

PS: Psittacula krameri is the parakeet species, Rose-ringed Parakeet (so called "ringneck"). Indian-ringnecked Parakeet is an Asian subspecies, Psittacula krameri manillensis, so that you may find the right one. ;)
I'd fly above the trees, over the seas in all degrees.. To anywhere I please.

Re: Where to buy parrots in Finland?
« Vastaus #6 : 13.03.10 - klo:13:58:01 »
Jepp we do as good as we can and reading mutch about what they want to eat and were i can find it so i have a good source when i need it.

And sorry for not telling what i seach for it was a Psittacula krameri. And i think i have found one that breede this in finland. So it just time to make preparations and make so the bird feel welcome to a new home when we pick it up. :)

And about that with many that wants to help i have many excperiense with.. Hard to now what the bird will eat and sutch things when everyone have an own view. But i know that every bird don't like the same food. :)