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Linnut => Kasvatus => Aiheen aloitti: Sabinefeh - 29.06.07 - klo:14:45:06

Otsikko: Käsiruokittu vs emojen ruokkima (engl.kielinen)
Kirjoitti: Sabinefeh - 29.06.07 - klo:14:45:06
Artikkeli joka kirjoitettu www.papegojprat.se, käännetty englanniksi yhdellä Pionus sivustolla.
Antaa miettimisen aihetta.

Kirjoittanut Elisabeth Böhmer & Henrik Hedenös (Artikkeli ruotsiksi) (http://www.papegojprat.se/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=36)

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When was the last time you cuddled with a handfed rabbit, or rode
on a handfed horse? Everybody knows both horses, dogs and rabbits
become very tame even though they are raised by their parents.
Considering this it's very pecualiar most people don't realize
the same applies to parrots.

In this article we'll try to describe why some people still
handfeed birds, and provide you with a few facts about the
negative consequences of handfeeding a bird.


Some History

The nineteen eighties a wave swept in over Sweden. People talked
about doubling the amount of babies, and getting them
independent faster. Few people didn't want to follow this new
development with dreams of greater economical profits. The
method was based on stealing eggs or chicks from the parents.
Most birds, including parrots often start a new litter right away
if theirs eggs or chicks are stolen from them. Instead of a few
precious babies every year you could now produce dozens!

You could also starve the chicks so that they learned to eat by
themselves faster and become ready to be sold.
The problem with taking over the role as "parent" was that eggs
had to be put in an incubator and chicks must be fed by humans since the
parent couldn't take care of them.

To be able to steal chicks and eggs and raise them by hand, you
would have to come up with something to motivate it with.

Handfed = tamer, cuddlier and a better pet, it was called. It was
so successful that many breeders still thinks it's true. Unfortunately there
are those that are fully aware of the opposite but because of personal gain still feeds the myth
with buyers that doesn't know any better.

Ironically enough it's even hard to sell parentfed babies today!

There are three important words when speaking of what way a chick
has been raised. These are listed below:

Parentraised:

A chick that has been raised by its parents got to stay with them
a few months after it learned to eat by itself.

This way the bird learns important lessons about how to be a
parrot. These birds are like parentfed ones not tame right away
but will become so very quickly.

Parentfed:  A parentfed bird has been with it's parents until it
learns to eat by itself. It has then been moved along with it's
siblings or other young birds to another aviary, or has been sold
right away.

These birds have partially lost the opportunity to be raised by
it's parents.

The bird is not tame when sold but will become so very quickly if
the new owner works with it when it arrives to the new home. A
parentfed bird will NOT become less tame then a handfed bird.






Otsikko: Re: Käsiruokittu vs emojen ruokkima (engl.kielinen)
Kirjoitti: Sabinefeh - 29.06.07 - klo:14:45:35
Handfed:

It's called handfeeding when a baby parrot is fed and raised by
humans. Different breeders takes the chicks in for handfeeding at
different times. Some will take eggs, ther very young chicks and
others older ones. Generally it could be said that the older the chick is when pulled, the more
traumatic it is for chick and parent to be separated.

The most common age to pull chicks are 3-8 weeks, depending on
species. By that time they have already passed the most critical
stages where it can be hard for a human to keep a chick alive.
The chick is to be fed by the breeder, which is usually done with a spoon, plastic syringe or a plastic tube. The chick doesn't always adapt to being fed by a human in time, and will
then starve to death.

The most common method of handfeeding is by using a spoon. A
spoon with the edges bent upwards slightly reminds of a parrots
lower mandible. Using this method the chick gets to taste the
food and can adapt the flow since you're not pushing the food into the beak.

It is also harder to cause serious burns if the food is to hot,
as they can spit the food out or back away.

Another common method is using a syringe. You the use a common
plastic syringe without a needle, insert the syringe in the
chicks mouth while holding its head, and gently squirt the food
into the babies mouth. This method is a bit more difficult then using a spoon. It's not
very rare that chicks are suffocated or burned. Beak deformation
is more likely using this method.

In common for all techniques is that they always should be
performed by an experienced breeder, or under strict
superweilance of one. Handfeeding is a very delicate and dangerous technique
which leads to thousands of deaths among baby birds every year.
You have to be very observant, and know at exactly which
temperature the baby should be in, what temperature and
consistency the food should be in, what amount of food to feed
it, how often, and so on.

Experienced breeders can quickly spot symptoms and how to treat
them to avoid the bird becoming ill.

Handfeeding is never to be performed by the buyer, it's very
irresponsible of the breeder to sell birds that are not fully
weaned. Hundreds of babies die every year because the breeder
sells them too soon.

All handfed birds have missed out on the opportunity to learn
necessary skills from their parents, and miss a real identity.
Many skills like building nests, finding food, communicating with
others of the same species and simply how to be a parrot is
therefore lost.



Otsikko: Re: Käsiruokittu vs emojen ruokkima (engl.kielinen)
Kirjoitti: Sabinefeh - 29.06.07 - klo:14:46:09
How does the birds themselves feed their chicks

Some birds, poultry for example, is hatched with necessary skills
already "programmed. " They can eat on their own after a couple of
hours and follow their mom to learn how to find food on their
own. They don't start incubating the eggs until the last one is laid,
thereby ensuring all chicks are ready to leave the nest at the
same time.

Parrots are born blind and naked or with a thin layer of down.
There can be a large age difference between the oldest and
youngest chick. Baby parrots are totally defenceless and can
under no circumstances fend for them selves the first weeks or
months.

Parrots feed each other by regurgitating food. In many species
only the male gathers food, feeds the female witch then feeds the
chicks. The female will stay with the babies all the time, except a few
short trips out of the nest to drink and pay a visit to the
toilet.

In many species the parents secrete a sort of "milk" from their
crop that works in the same ways that the milk from mammals does,
and contains amino acids, antibodies and other vital things we
can't recreate artificially. When the chicks are a bit older the
female will also gather food.

The chicks don't just get food from their parents, love and care
is very important for a family of parrots, despite of the stress
it means to breed the parents don't forget to take some time to
talk to and preen their little babies. Parents and babies
communicate with each other even before the chicks have hatched.

Some species even name each baby!

Parrots are very complex beings that we only recently have
started to try to understand. Some say they are like five year
old children, some think they are the smartest animals after
humans.

Like us, the parrots don't rely on instincts. They have them of
course, just as every other animal, but parrots have a big need
to learn things. They learn what’s poisonous and eatable, where to
find whatever, how to recognize a good mate, how to communicate,
and how to raise their young.

If they loose the opportunity to learn from their parents they
will loose the possibility of passing down knowledge so that the
species can remain.

It's known that parrots wich have been handfed in a couple of
generations will loose the ability to care for their own young.
with this in mind, Imagine how the situation will look in the
future.

How will we be able to save endangered parrots?

The great paradox

The paradox about handfeeding, the method to increase the number
of babies, is that breeders often charge alot more for the
handfed babies compared to the parentfed or parent raised ones.
Handfed parrots are admittedly often, but not always tame when sold. On the other hand, if you
feel that taming isn't something you have the time to do, you
should not get such a demanding animals as a parrot.

You could also say that someone that can't tame a parrot is not
capable of satisfying their needs. If the breeder thinks someone
needs help with taming the baby, he or she could take a greater
responsibility by taming the baby before it's sold.

A parentfed or Parentraised bird will be exactly as tame as a
handfed one, it just takes a bit more time.

Despite all the care and love the parents give their young there
are those who justifies handfeeding.

Parent birds that are stolen of their young, year after year,
cannot do anything else then suffer, and will often start
breeding more and more sporadic, and eventually stop completely.

The parents loose their babies which they have given everything
for weeks or months. Some breeders notice how much mental
suffering the parents are exposed to because of this, they often
let them keep one of their babies.

Which one of your children would you choose?

When the baby is a bit older, it doesn't get a chance to learn
how to be a parrot and how to communicate with others, very
important skills even for domestic parrots.

Especially birds that have been handfed from an early age misses
it's identity as a parrot which can lead to behaviour disorders,
especially when it has grown a bit older and starts to develop
it's own personality.

Since they may think they are humans they can feel inadequate
and/or confused because they don't fit in or have different
needs. Some breeders claim their pairs are not capable of raising their
own young.

The first litters often die in nature, the parents are to
immature and needs to practice before they are capable of raising
the young. The parents can incubate badly, forget to feed or
attack the babies. Conclusions are often made all to quickly
about the pair, even though they haven't gotten an honest chance
to raise their own young before being seen as bad parents. If
the pair has tried to raise their own young several times in the
right conditions and still not succeed, the should not be
allowed to breed any more.

Although the breeder often only see the money flying by.

It's becoming more and more obvious what negative side effects
that comes with handfeeding.

Knowing how incredibly smart and sensitive these birds are, we
can state that it's nothing other than animal cruelty to be
involved in robbing nests.





What does the law state?

Austria has to be considered as a predecessor when it comes to
handfeeding. They are the first country in the world to banish
handfeeding, and only accept it when it comes to saving
endangered species.

The Swedish law of animal protection does not endorce
handfeeding, but the regulation DFS2005:8(L80) is an exception
from the rule. Quote:


3§ A baby bird that is depending on being fed should be kept
with at least one feeding parent if it's not being handfed by
humans.

Genral advise to 6 chapter 3§ Baby birds of these species
should after being hatched be kept with at least one feeding,
adult bird:

Budgerigars at least 6 weeks

Cockatiels at least 7 weeks

Lovebirds (Agapornis spp.) at least 6 weeks

Canary's at least 30 days

finches at least 30 days

Young males that have started to mature should not be kept with
the father.

We have asked the Swedish department of animal protection if it
is allowed to handfeed babies and they directed us to the
paragraph above, from DFS2005:8.

They also wrote "It is always to be preferred that babies of all
species are fed by a parent as it then receives the right social
impressions. "

There's a lot to say about DFS2005:8 and the general advice. This
especially concerns the question on handfeeding.

When L80, which is the foundation for DFS2005:8 was written,
handfeeding was a relatively new fenomenon, neither did we know
the negative consequences that follows. In one of the successor
countries when it comes to handfeeding, USA some breeders have started to notice that their handfed parrots no longer knows how to raise their young after a couple of
generations, and the chicks has to be handfed to survive. There
are also some people with strong economical interests who worked
actively against banning handfeeding when the regulations
were written. With the knowledge we possess today, there really is
nothing at all that can justify handfeeding, other than from an
economical point of view. Maybe it's time to change 6 chapter
§3 in DSF2005:8 to:

"A baby bird that is depending on being fed should be kept with
at least one feeding adult."

Simple and obvious..

A parrod should become tame by trust, not dependance.

Otsikko: Re: Käsiruokittu vs emojen ruokkima (engl.kielinen)
Kirjoitti: sanne - 30.06.07 - klo:19:48:50
A parrod should become tame by trust, not dependance.

Kuinka hyvin sanottu! Olen myös samaa mieltä siinä, että jos ei ole aikaa tai halua kesyttää vanhempien kasvattia, niin miksi ylipäätänsä hankkia koko lintua?

sanne
Otsikko: Re: Käsiruokittu vs emojen ruokkima (engl.kielinen)
Kirjoitti: julle - 30.06.07 - klo:20:10:26
Kaikki ne pitää koulia olisesitte kenenkä ruokkima!


kouluttaminen ja kesyttäminen on eri asia ;)
Otsikko: Re: Käsiruokittu vs emojen ruokkima (engl.kielinen)
Kirjoitti: jykke32 - 30.06.07 - klo:20:16:06
Tyhmana kysyisin mita tuo kouliminen tarkoittaa...? Kuulostaa sanana vaan ettei linnun kysyttelyyn sopisi..
Otsikko: Re: Käsiruokittu vs emojen ruokkima (engl.kielinen)
Kirjoitti: sanne - 30.06.07 - klo:23:10:53
Tyhmana kysyisin mita tuo kouliminen tarkoittaa...? Kuulostaa sanana vaan ettei linnun kysyttelyyn sopisi..

Itse mieluummin puhuisin kouluttamisen sijaan opettamisesta.

Ja mitä tulee harmaan kommentiin, siitä ei ollutkaan tässä puhe...jos nyt ymmärrettäisiin termit oikein ;) Miten kasvatustapa liittyy "kouluttamiseen"? Kesyttäminen mielestäni on luottamuksen hankkimista ja periaatteessa siihen kyllä sisältyy opettaminenkin matkan varrella(opettaahan lintuvanhemmatkin nuorelle linnulle elämää ja tapoja luonnossa). Ihmettelen vain, että onko tässä kukaan kiistänytkään opettamisen tarpeellisuutta, oli kyse mistä linnusta hyvänsä? Miten sen tekee on taas sitten täysin toinen asia sekä keskustelun aihe...

sanne
Otsikko: Re: Käsiruokittu vs emojen ruokkima (engl.kielinen)
Kirjoitti: mk - 30.08.13 - klo:13:52:22
Tyhmana kysyisin mita tuo kouliminen tarkoittaa...? Kuulostaa sanana vaan ettei linnun kysyttelyyn sopisi..
Tämä on oma mielipiteeni mitä tuo kouliminen tarkoittaa. Esimerkiksi otat linnun hoitoosi ja haluat linnun tulevan pillin puhalluksen jälkeen luoksesi.
1. Koulimalla : Puhallat parin metrin päästä pilliin (lintu ei siis ole ennen kuullutkaan koko pilliä), lintu ei tule kun ei tiedä mitä se tarkoittaa. Alat siis koulimaan lintuasi ja menet sen luokse heti, ja vaikka ravistelet lintua, koska se ei tajunnut. Jatkat tätä koulimista niin kauan, että lintu tietää, pillin puhallus = "turpiin tulee", eli lintu oppii pelkäämään pilliä.

2. Kouluttamalla (koira piireissä vallalla, osalla): Puhallat pilliin parin metrin päästä lintu ei tajua tulla luoksesi (ei siis ennen ole kuullut pilliä), lintu ei tule, menet linnun luokse ja haet sen, teet uudestaan ja uudestaan samaa, lopulta päreet palaa kun lintu on tyhmä eikä tajua = "turpiin tulee". Lintu oppii että puhalluksesta aikasi haet linnun kädellesi ja sitten tulee turpaan = lintu alkaa puolustautumaan tai pakenemaan.

3. Opettamalla: Menet linnun viereen, annat linnun nähdä palkinnon, puhallat pilliin lintu katsoo ja saa palkinnon, toistat useasti ja palkkio tulee aina kun katsoo sinuun. Pikkuhiljaa pidennät matkaa, puhallat ja palkitset kun tulee luoksesi. Lintu oppii pillin puhallus = kiva asia.

Tämä on siis ihan oma mielipiteeni, mutta olen huomannut koiran kanssa kulkiessa, osa koulii = koira oppii pelkäämään, osa kouluttaa = koira oppii pelkäämään ja me osa opetetaan = koira tulee iloisena luokse.
Otsikko: Re: Käsiruokittu vs emojen ruokkima (engl.kielinen)
Kirjoitti: Lintunen - 30.08.13 - klo:14:32:51
Nuo on kyllä niin vaihtelevia termejä, joille tuskin on yhtä ja ainoaa selitystä. Itse en ainakaan näe kouluttamisena negatiivisena terminä, vaan ennemminkin koulutuksen sisällä on eri tapoja kouluttaa, ja vasta niistä riippuu onko koulutustapa eläimen mielestä miellyttävä vai epämiellyttävä...